Monday, February 09, 2009

Mars and Venus Issues...

I was listening to Adam and Britt's radio show the other night, and was reminded again just how much people like to jump all over Adam for his opinions. Now I'll state for the record that I didn't really agree with his stance on things, but for the most part, I make the assumption (rightly or wrongly) that he says a lot of what he does to be shocking. I think he takes the controversial side of an issue, multiplies it by a thousand and uses it for the sake of entertainment.

However what genuinely shocked me was how people were talking to him. He was getting sworn at, being called a dumbass, getting callers telling him how furious they were at him. There didn't seem to be any regard for his thoughts or feelings - there was just righteous indignation.

And he pretty much took it in stride, and even fanned the flames.

That situation right there led me to formulate half a dozen different blog posts in my head. Even now, I'm not sure which one I want to go with.

The options are:

1. The fact that women seem to feel the right to tell off men when they view them as being idiots.
2. The question of how close/honest/blunt is too much? When, in a friendship, do we begin to disregard the feelings of others simply because we feel comfortable with them? And is this a privilege or a flaw in relationships?
3. Would we say things to our blog friends that we wouldn't say to our RL friends, because there's still not the in person, seeing the person's reaction aspect of it?
4. Why do people feel compelled to attack someone for one opinion that is unlike yours when, on the whole, you know what they are like, and respect their intelligence and opinions on most everything else?

OK, so I can't count.
Anyhoo...

I for one, feel so much more freedom to tell off my male friends than I do my girlfriends. But I know that it's because I don't trust, nor value my male friendships nearly as much as my female relationships. I am willing to risk my male friendship, but would not make the same risk with my girlfriends. However, that doesn't mean that telling them off is necessarily right.

I think it's a bad habit that women have - becoming nagging and condescending with men. (Yes, yes, there are exceptions) I see it in so many of my friends when I look as an outsider at their relationships with their boyfriends or husbands.

I don't know if it's because we genuinely feel superior, or that we're fighting back after generations of oppression, or if it's just a bitchiness gene that we all have. But it's so prevalent, and damaging to watch. It's one (of the hundreds) of reasons that I fear getting into a relationship. I saw my Mom treat my Dad that way, and since I was Daddy's little girl, I resented anyone being "mean" to him.

But whether it's the behaviour of the collective female unconscious or not, that doesn't make it right. That doesn't make it OK that I don't treat my male friends as well as my girlfriends. That doesn't make it OK that I heard a bunch of women who claim to be his friends calling Adam a dumbass. It doesn't make it OK that the second I see women get married they become nagging mothering bitches to their husbands.

I think that we can't allow ourselves to get too comfortable in these situations. Yes, it's tiring and hard work to constantly treat people well. We all have bad days, and we all have the right to slip up all the time. But I think the "habit" should be to be civil to one another, and not the exception.

Any thoughts?


* btw, Adam obviously doesn't need or even want me to defend him, it's not the point of this post. And I don't mean to be picking on any of the lovely people who were in the chat room last week- it was just something that I've noticed on more than one occasion, and it got me thinking.

**And clearly I chose option #1 to go with. Next time I'll address #2. I probably won't bother with #3 & 4.

17 comments:

Becky said...

I also have wondered if he chooses to play Devil's Advocate. Anyway, I have seen more women be verbally abusive, degrading, or completely rude to men. It doesn't matter if its s friend, a co-worker, or a significant other. No one, male or female, is entitled to slam another person.

However,it is ok to speak the truth. And it is possible to be truthful and tactful at the same time. It took me awhile to find that balance.

Sometimes I think that society just expects women to be catty, so its easy to get caught up in that thinking. Whatever happened to respect? Or being open to debate without vicious name calling?

When my friends tell me that I'm being an idiot, I listen. And I try to rectify the idiot act that I'm doing. And I appreciate the fact that my friend respects me enough to call me out.

Sorry that I rambled:)

Friendly Manitoban said...

Ouch

PinkPiddyPaws said...

It's #4 that gets to me. Why oh WHY do people get so spun up because someone doesn't agree with them? Geez people.. just agree to disagree and move on. Nothing to see here.. move along.. these are not the droids you are looking for. :)

Avitable said...

Heh. That episode was a particularly harsh one. Sometimes Britt is the one getting the insults, though, so it tends to even out.

I do play devil's advocate for some of our shows, but I never take a stance that I don't have some belief in. I just might take it to the extreme for the sake of making an example. It's the lawyer in me.

With most of the people, I know them well enough to understand that they're not being completely serious, and in Britt's case, that's just how our dynamic is, and I'm probably just as harsh to her as she is to me. We still get along great, though.

I do think you make some excellent points with your post, though, and I do think that the so-called "weaker" sex are actually able to tear down the strongest man with their words.

Chief Rock Chef said...

Hm, now my wife didn't suddenly change when we got married, but as we left it for 16 years we might be different to most! I also see a lot of nagging women and count my lucky stars!

Having said that, I think a lot of the problem is that too many guys are just bull headed and will only take notice of their wives if they really go at them. So maybe the answer is that if guys listened in the first place things would be a lot more harmonious?

But as I have told you before, don't live your life assuming that you will automatically act like your mom. I am sure that you would be very different.

Chief Rock Chef said...

Hm, now my wife didn't suddenly change when we got married, but as we left it for 16 years we might be different to most! I also see a lot of nagging women and count my lucky stars!

Having said that, I think a lot of the problem is that too many guys are just bull headed and will only take notice of their wives if they really go at them. So maybe the answer is that if guys listened in the first place things would be a lot more harmonious?

But as I have told you before, don't live your life assuming that you will automatically act like your mom. I am sure that you would be very different.

Hilly said...

I think it is easier to joke around with men and take it a bit further than you would with a woman because they seem to be less sensitive. However, that should not mean that it is okay to call a man names and talk down to him like he's a dumb ass who is there for your punching bag pleasure. I think it is awful the way certain people talk to each other at times.

That being said, I think people know Adam's boundaries and what he can and cannot take being called. I never bat an eye when Britt calls him an ass because as he already said, that is just their dynamic. However, were someone that is not friends with him to call him a buffoon or something of the like, I would take offense to that.

I seem to defend my male friends a LOT. I think I get all protective momma lion or something!

Alice said...

Princess I find that as women we do a couple of things.

1. We belittle our men because we do not stand up for ourselves during incounters with the other men in our lives ie. Bosses, Business Partners...

2. Women are Catty to each other but not in front of each other because we feel threatened but will never say so....pride thing

xoxo

Princess of the Universe said...

Becky- well don't even get me started on the whole double-standard thing- if men spoke that way to us? They'd be charged with harassment and accused of being mysoginistic (sp?)

My Person- this was not directed towards you at all- honest!!

PPP- I think people just like getting all ranty and angry...

Adam- I guess I've just missed the other shows - it always seems to be you getting attacked...and you of course saying shocking things to make it worse! :P

Chief- you think that's why we do it? Cause men ignore women? I think that's sad for both genders then...

Hilly- Yes, I certainly don't think Adam needs me to help him out, but there are limits, and that was a way harsh show!

Alice - I agree 100% on both points.

xo

Jess said...

I've been thinking about this a lot recently after receiving a couple of very rude comments on my blog. I really don't think that people who met me in person would rant and rave to my face about how I'm really negative and complain all the time when really my life is fantastic and I'm just looking for stuff to whine about. But under the anonymous cover of the internet... well, apparently anything goes.

Nat said...

By and large, I think the dynamic between men and women are different. As a rule, I prefer the company of men. Basically, I like that I can be a bit more harshly honest. (I also take it better from men.) To be honest, I'm more likely to dump women for being stupid and ditzy.

I think as a society, we tend to dumb men down. It's the buffoon, the guys who can't do it without women, etc. etc. Fact is, I don't now any guys like this. But as a result I think some women think they can nag, be rude with their partners and guy friends.

And yeah, you say things on the web that you'd never say to someone's face. Sad. Really.

Alice said...

I have also tagged you in my blog today...with all of your girliness I thought you would like it

delmer said...

I can't think of a single time my buddies and I were together that we badmouthed our girlfriends or wives. This goes back 30 years. (Of course, if we were playing basketball or drinking beer we had better things to do than talk about women.)

I know several women who have been involved in "book clubs," "card clubs," and "coffee clatches" that were actually forums for complaining about men. (A woman I went to HS with was in one with my now-ex ... who used to grumble about me ... why she'd do that in the company of someone I'd known since I was 17 is beyond me).

My neighbor used to welcome the times his wife went away with her girlfriends. He said she'd come home thinking he was a saint after hearing her friends complain about their husbands.

So ... I think it must be, as you suggest, some sort of gene. And, maybe men don't complain because we're just too clueless.

Anonymous said...

I have no idea what radio show you were listening to...
I like to think Im equally rude to women as well as men, but if I think about it, I think Im nicer to men. Im also of the opinion of being blunt. I find when people sugar coat something you might miss the point...
PS I cant believe you went and saw push without me..... wanker
Nick

Princess of the Universe said...

Jess- Ugh, trolls suck!

Nat- I am friends with both men and women, I just seem to value the women more - cause while they're not total idiots (the men), I really don't understand what goes on in their heads sometimes...

Alice- Fun! Thanks!

Delmer- I really want to find a book club to join...but I kind of want to talk about...books. Is that wrong?

MDA- click on the link for the radio show. Re: Push- I did call you on Saturday! You just decided that the bar with your "other friends" was more important than me :P

Glamourpuss said...

Sadly, I think man-bashing has become a popular and acceptable sport. I've done it myself on occasion. But I think it's lazy more than anything. As to swearing at people, I think people behave online in ways they would find totally unacceptable face to face. I don't respect that.

Puss

Curiosity Killer said...

Obviously most humans prefer to be treated with respect and kindness at all times, but sometimes it just doesn't work. I agree, sometimes I do let it out with my male friends and just shut it with female friends, but not because I value female friends more - but because my female friends tend to be more sensitive and would get hurt easier.

And speaking for myself, sometimes I need someone to bitchslap me just so I get the point. Sometimes - I just don't wanna tip toe around people who I would like to consider as my friends. To each their own I think. *shrug*

 
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